Neil: What is going on and welcome to another episode of the Time Killers Podcast. A show about games, movies, and everything else we kill time with. My name is Neil Rivera and I am killing time with a man who has gone toe-to-toe with the Lord of Hatred himself. It's Matthew Field.

Matthew: An epic battle. An epic battle. An epic battle indeed.

Neil: Before we talk about Diablo IV Lord of Hatred and Path of Exile 2. We've got a big old ARPG extravaganza for you. Matthew and I are actually going to be um recapping Summer Game Fest. So, last episode we talked about the PlayStation State of Play, gave you our reactions uh to that and all the announcements there. So, go back and listen to that if you haven't already, but we wanted to make sure we recaped the rest of the Summer Game Fest announcement season for you all here. So, we're going to be jumping into that before we break down Diablo IV and Path of Exile in the back half of the show. But before we jump into that, I want to remind you guys that you can listen to any past episodes and find us on your social network of choice at timekillerspod.com. Don't forget to once you follow us, DM us your questions, comments, and hot takes. We want them all. Please be part of the show and be part of this community that we're building. And don't forget to subscribe to us on whatever podcast service that you are listening to us here on and leave us a review. Give us five stars and let us know how much you love us. All right, enough about that. Let's jump right into it. Summer Game Fest. Uh, so Sony went first, if I'm not mistaken, with their state of play, and we had a cavalcade of shows after that. The PC Gamer Show, the Future Games Showcase, Wholesome, uh, Direct, uh, what else? What am I missing?

Matthew: Xbox showcase, and of course, yeah, Day of the Devs, and, uh, Nintendo closing it out with their, uh, sort of surprise direct that was heavily rumored.

Neil: Um, so yeah, Matthew and I have three announcements that excited us uh from the Summer Game Fest season across all of the different shows and we're just going to go round robin and uh, you know, talk about the games that that stood out to us the most. So, Matthew, I'm going to put you on the spot first. What excited you coming out of Summer Game Fest 2026?

Matthew: So, I will start with Vivarium. Um, I am blanking on which uh showcase this was actually debuted at, but um it is a sort it's it's a slice of life or a a life sim adventure game um by studio Meadowflower I think and I believe this is their first game. Yes. Um, and it is it from what it seems from what we get gather from the trailer, it seems like you play as um a you know a child who is in a kind of terrarium like a small little bottle bottle world. Um, and there's like kind of a town in there that you get to uh walk around in and you know chat up villagers. Um, and it's all kind of rendered in this very like 80s anime aesthetic. Um, this is the Giblly game. This is the the Let's just call it what it is. It's the Studio Giblly art style. Specifically like early Giblly because there's another game that we're going to talk about that's like a little bit later, but yeah, early Giblly. This this definitely has a strong a strong similarity to. Um, and it just looks very like uh very chill. It has like it's a it's a vibe basically. Um yeah, and the animations look amazing and but it looks like there may there may be something else kind of kind of going on there um you know related to uh you know your place in this small little world and whether you know this is whether you you break out or I don't know. Um but there's there's there's some kind of insinuation that um you either become aware of of your small or your place in this small world or um you know investigate it in some way. So um even if there is none of that I think it looked interesting enough and was you know just beautiful enough to uh to really catch my eye and and um be one of the the biggest kind of coolest announcements that I wasn't expecting.

Neil: Yeah. The art style for this one is definitely a winner for sure. And it it I it took me a while. I finally I figured out where it was. It was on the It was in the Xbox Games Showcase, but you would like you would be or like you wouldn't be mistaken if you um had like thought that this was at the like the Wholesome Games or like some sort of cozy game direct because it's got a very cozy vibe to it with the art style. Um but yeah, it's like this adventure game and it's yeah, like it looks really cool. like it's got like a, you know, like I said, the the art style looks really striking and fun. So, yeah, definitely one of the standouts from the uh the Xbox show. I think, you know, similarly to the the state of PlayStation State of Play, I came away from the Xbox showcase thinking that a lot of the games shown were sort of meant for a, you know, a particular audience. Um, and this one was one that that stood out and kind of went against that. So, yeah, I'm excited for it as well.

Matthew: Yeah, I mean, I think that was maybe one reason why it did stand out. so much is because so much of these other so showcases were just like violence, gore, blood, you know, and this dark brooding.

Neil: Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew: And here you get this really nice like just really really chill um thing and one of the major showcases. So yeah.

Neil: Yeah. I am going to go in the complete opposite direction of you and go with arguably the the the biggest reveal of the season outside of Docarine of Time remake. I'll give Nintendo that. But that's Final Fantasy 7 Revelation, which was, you know, the the everyone coming into this, we all were wondering what the the third one was going to be titled. Um, you know, I was, you know, I'm going to preface this by saying, you know, Final Fantasy 7 up until very recently, was my favorite game of all time. These modern remakes, I think, are hitting for me. you know, like like Final Fantasy 7, you know, like other Final Fantasy 7 fans, um you know, they're hitting for me in a way that like, you know, it's it's they're hitting all the right notes, right? I definitely think that uh Rebirth had some issues. Um, and I still have concerns after this reveal and you know, some of the the interviews that, um, the the director who I'm totally blanking on now, um, uh, you know, he he kind of was making his rounds at Summer Game Fest, um, and doing a bunch of interviews with a bunch of, uh, gaming outlets, and it he didn't really do anything to quell any of the concerns I have coming out of Rebirth that this is going to be a smaller game, but everything they're adding around what I would say is one of the best combat systems in video games uh with the job system and then of course just it being the sort of fin you know the the climactic uh finale of the the story and you know knowing obviously from my time playing the original you know what all that's going to entail the different places that we're going to go and you know obviously having uh Vincent and Sid as playable characters. So, the the additions that they're, you know, they that they showed off that we kind of knew were coming um, you know, were great and I was I was happy to see them, but there were still some surprises in that reveal and um, you know, with things that they're doing to to sort of beef it up and modernize it that also have me excited. uh namely the the the job system which was really really cool being able to you know uh switch out like have different jobs for your characters which is you know it's a Final Fantasy staple but Final Fantasy 7 was interesting in that it was traditionally jobless so it's kind of kind of cool that it's it's going back and adopting some of the legacy Final Fantasy systems here for the remake. But yeah, I'm I'm super excited for it. Can't wait. It's it's going to be a day one purchase. Uh you know

Matthew: Yeah, let's go. Yeah, I I think I want to be excited about this and I did like I played remake and I played a lot of Rebirth. Uh but it it lost me with how just inflated it was for that section of the game. Um I I didn't end up finishing it and was honestly kind of frustrated with it by the time I put it down. Um it just I I I wanted to like it. it felt just like it couldn't get out of its own way long enough for me to for me to have the experience that I wanted to with it. So, I don't know. I I right now I'm I'm I'm saying that I'm not going to play Revelation. I mean, it's not I've played the original. It's not like it's going to spoil anything for me if I if I don't go back and finish Rebirth. So, um I don't know. Maybe if we see that it's if we come if it comes out that it's not quite as padded or at least more of what the more of what the additional length is is optional versus you know in the main the main uh story um the critical path I might I might be convinced to go back and and and pick up Revelations as well because it it does look I mean the combat system is is fantastic and I like all these characters and stuff. I just, you know, uh it was just it needs to it needs to have a a consistent pace throughout it for me to for me to to retain interest.

Neil: I agree with that. And yeah, a lot of what they were saying was still concerning me. Like, you know, they went into depth like there's a whole like Queen's Blood campaign and I'm probably like one of 10 people that didn't actually enjoy the Queen's Blood Miname in Rebirth. So, like hearing them go into detail about like this is, you know, they expanded on it, which I'm not surprised that they did that, but you know, hearing in some cases that they expanded uh definitely concerns me. But I did read and see somewhere that they were easing some of the friction around some of that where it was like making some of that stuff optional where in Rebirth it was like mandating that you, you know, interact with these mini games, uh, which weren't always fun.

Matthew: Yeah. I mean I mean like Witcher Witcher 3 figured this out with Gwent, you know, a decade ago, you know, and I I I like Queen's Blood, but yeah, that's that it should be optional. You should not have to play that sort of thing outside of maybe like the one intro thing that gates your progress or whatever. Make the rest of it optional and the people who who like it will will definitely seek it out, you know.

Neil: Yep. Yeah. even the the the Final Fantasy sickos like myself. I think I got a little tired of it, but I'm sure there are sickos who are more sicko than I am that that will, you know, eat up more of it. But yeah, I'm I'm excited for it. It's it's uh you know, it's hard to, you know, find a reason to not be excited for a you know, the the the culmination of the remake trilogy of the game that sort of defined your childhood. So that's kind of a a cheap easy pick for me. Lowhanging fruit, if you will. Matthew, what stood out to you next at Summer Game Fest?

Matthew: My next pick is Into the Wind. Um, this was at the PC gaming show. Um, and you know, we we talked about how Vivarium has a certain Giblly vibe. This is kind of like later Gibli, like a like a Porco Rosso uh style. Um, where and it's also rendered in a different graphical style, which might account for some of the differences there. like this is this is fully 3D um 3D rendering and then 3D world and everything. Uh while Vavarium is is sort of got a the more traditional handdrawn anime appearance to it, right? Um but yeah, I mean this looks this, you know, from the trailer it looks like there are honestly like there's like some Death Stranding kind of elements to it. the way you got your your your piling up these packages um both on your uh your your jet uh your your your plane car, your plane motorcycle um or your motorcycle that has wings. I'm looking at the description of the game right now and it's drive, fly, and run deliveries together with your sentient motorcycle plane, which sounds awesome.

Neil: Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew: Um and you know, you stack up you're stacking up packages to deliver to people and you're talking to talents folks and everything. So, um I mean you you know I I love some Death Stranding. Um this is another game that looks beautiful. It's got it's even got some like aerial combat that looks like in in the in the 10 seconds worth of that that they show in this trailer, it reminded me of like a Crimson Skies.

Neil: Yeah.

Matthew: Uh type type deal. Um all of it it just seems very like very cool. um a slightly more adventure action adventure vibe to it than Vivarium, but similar like good good feel vibes. Um and yeah, I I this this caught me off guard and um I'm I'm really looking forward to it.

Neil: I yeah, I totally missed the PC uh game show and I caught happened to catch the trailer for this either like on TikTok or whatever and it totally caught me and I think that Death Stranding is a perfect comparison for this because yeah, you are doing the sort of like mundane delivery tasks and but then there is like this really robust like flight system that yeah, it looks like you're flying this plane around. There's combat. Um, yeah, it looks really, really cool. And yeah, definitely the the art style, the the Giblly art style here also stands out. But, uh, yeah, this is one that I think I'm going to have to wishlist as well.

Matthew: Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think it I don't think it has a um a release date yet. I think it they I think they have said that it will be coming to early access first. So, I would assume we get the early access release before too long and then, you know, maybe a year or whatever we get the full release.

Neil: Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to uh keep an eye on this one because yeah, I think this is one that uh you know, as as Death Stranding fans like ourselves, I think this is one that could definitely uh hit for us.

Matthew: Yeah, for sure.

Neil: I'm going to keep it on the sort of smaller indie side and talk about a game that I saw at Dayds and that is Mr. Records. So, similarly to kind of how you described Into the Wind, um Mr. Records is also combining two sort of gameplay genres and styles with a really cool unique art style. Um, so in Mr. Records, you play as a an older gentleman. I can't remember his name. I'm not but um you play as like an owner of a uh like a record shop, like a vinyl store. And so the the sort of main gameplay hooks here are you are you know managing the record store uh in the evening and like making recommendations to people based on like specific tastes or other sort of like criteria that they have. So there's like that business you know management like making sure your customers are happy side but then there is also this really colorful like rhythmbbased platforming sequences as well. Um, and it's all wrapped up in this really just bright, cartoony, colorful uh, aesthetic. I mean, that's kind of like the the the I think the the theme with this that's sort of sticking with us so far through these games is that they've got just really cool, quirky, unique art styles. Uh, and this one definitely does, but I think the thing that really stood out to me was just how it's combining the two gameplay systems. Um, you know, I love a good I love a good uh gameplay mashup, but uh yeah, this is uh this is definitely one like as a music lover uh and as someone who enjoys like business management games, I think this is one that that's speaking to me.

Matthew: Yeah, I I watched Day of the Devs and I think I missed the like initial intro to this trailer cuz I saw the part of them where they're like actually showing the the people recording this and I was like, "Oh, that's that's neat that they're showing all that stuff." I I but I missed like the the gameplay that they show before they go into that section where you've got like the platformer and um you know where he's like sliding around uh like what looks like I don't know like water slides and then catching little floating bubbles. Um yeah, it looks it looks really cool. Um and then yeah, you've got the the uh sections where you're actually managing the record store and and interacting with it in that way. So, um, it, yeah, it like you said, we're we're clearly honing in on the stuff that was, um, a little bit more vibrant and and, uh, atypical for what you usually get out of these showcases.

Neil: But you know what to and like this is, you know, I'm kind of spoiling the later part of our conversation where we talk about the the the shows like overall, but like I think that's kind of my one of my critiques of, you know, Keely show specifically, the Summer Game Fest, is that it is a lot of just Souls likes and these sort of dark, gritty, you know, violent worlds. So, it was refreshing to see uh some of the more colorful stuff uh in other shows.

Matthew: For sure. Yeah, I agree.

Neil: Going away from the bright and colorfulness though, I'm going back into to gritty realism with my last pick. Uh Clutch. This is the narrative racing game by uh previous, you know, uh Playground Games devs. I think we talked about it last episode when we were talking about Forts of Horizon 6 as well. Uh so this got a big blowout here, big reveal trailer. Uh, obviously it is a a narrative focus like we talked about, but um I mean I thought this trailer was awesome. You know, it was more of a like a tone piece, but like you can tell the the sort of narrative flavor that they're going for and it's coming across very very strongly. So, I'm I'm excited for this. I'm excited for, you know, like kind of like, you know, continuing our conversation from last episode. I'm excited for more and more racing games to, you know, do more with the act of racing just than like, you know, big open world with tons of stuff to do. So, I like that they're going down the narrative focus here. And I think the narrative that they're at least pitching here in the trailer looks compelling enough that I want to give this a try.

Matthew: Yeah, I was I was already pretty much sold on this just hearing the description, who was behind it, and and sort of the pitch for the game before this trailer even dropped. Uh, and yeah, I was beyond sold once they once they showed the trailer. I mean, it it it essentially it pitches this as like a Grand Theft Auto without but in but instead of the the sequences where you'd be like getting out of your car and shooting, you're instead like off-road driving or or like participating in like illegal driving. And then you have the uh the legal driving aspects of it where you're um you know racing on a circuit and you're of course like you're you're in like I think it's like the French Riviera or something. So I mean this the the scenery and the locations that that it's looking like it it looks as good as what you would expect from like a Forsa Horizon game. Um obviously we haven't we haven't gone through and and seen the uh like you know the the in-depth gameplay yet. how it controls, how it plays, or any of that stuff. Um, you know, obviously like like I mentioned in the last episode, I think we take for granted just how good Fors Horizon games feel and how consistent they are to drive. So, we'll see if they can mimic that kind of, you know, really nice game feel, but, you know, I I I think I I think I'm in on this one. This one looks great.

Neil: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think there's enough, you know, space in the racing genre for especially, you know, if they I almost want them to play around with the driving mechanics by, you know, keep it, you know, make it feel good and, you know, responsive, but like I would almost be a little disappointed if it comes out and it handles almost exactly like Forza or like hyper realistic. there's opportunities, you know, like like Screamer, even though they didn't quite nail that system, um, you know, to to do something unique and fun and more arcadey. Uh, especially since you're not really focused on the the realism of the driving. It's more about the narrative.

Matthew: Yeah, I I I certainly did not mean to suggest that like this should just they should be copying the Forsa Horizon game feel, but I think it needs to feel good in a way that Forsa Horizon does, you know?

Neil: Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. Um, also shout out to them using uh the killers uh the Oh god, I had the song title here. Hold on. All these things I have done. Shout out to them for using all these things that I have done. The killer song. I always want to call it like I've got soul, but it's that's not the you know, they say I've got soul, but I'm not a soldier. But anyway, shout out to using the killers in your trailer. That's a a 10 out of 10 choice for me and makes me more likely to to buy your game.

Matthew: Yeah, agreed. Good choice.

Neil: Matthew, what was your third uh standout from the Summer Game Fest?

Matthew: My third choice is uh Jen Atlas. Um which was uh this was at the I think this was at the Summer Game Fest proper. Um which is the new uh uh game from uh Fumido Uea. Uh yeah, FUA. the I think the studio itself is gen design. Um so yeah, this game it looks uh beautiful, moody, kind of desolate. um very on brand for what his style of games have been in the past, which is like there's like a a sense of um of like mystery, but also of like uh uh loneliness given the the large large volume of expanses and like the lack of other people that you're there with, you know, in in that space. Um, and I mean this one like it looks like they they this is the none of his games have featured like guns before and I think this one they showed off a little bit of gunplay in this one. Um, I don't expect there would be a ton of combat, you know, maybe like on the level of like a a Shadow of the Colossus. So, um, I think this looks like a really cool evolution of his style. Um, and at the end of the day, I'm a sucker for giant robots, you know, like it's it's I'm gonna play it. And, um, it also makes me want to go back to play The Last Guardian, which I did not play of his. Uh, so I might do that in the run-up to this game. But, um, this one was a big big eyecatcher for me in a way that I did not expect. Um, and yeah, it looks it looks very cool. I'm very curious to uh I'm sure we you know there's going to be they're going to be kind of tight lipped on some of the stuff just you know given how how much of those games are about Discovery and you know they're not going to give too much away pre-release but um I'm I'm really looking forward to to when this one drops.

Neil: Yeah, UEA is one of the like sort of unsung you know we talk about like the the um the aur developers and I think he's one of the more unsung ones. You know I would classify him as like an aur. this reputation era. But yeah, I was not expecting to be futuristic. I wasn't expecting it to feature guns. So, a lot of surprises, but yeah, I mean, the the the sort of spirit of Shadow of the Colossus and all these other games that that he's worked on in the past. Um, you know, definitely that DNA shown through. And yeah, I'm I'm with you where I'm just I'm I'm all about the setting, you know, being this like sort of desolate post-apocalyptic world. I know we see that a lot, especially with like robots and future tech, but yeah, I mean, something about that paired with the isolation and the loneliness, the solitude, and just how big and like, you know, serene a lot of the worlds that they they make in their previous games are. I'm excited to see how they adopt that to a more like science fiction-y setting.

Matthew: I agree. Yeah, I I think it's like I said, it feels like a natural evolution um to what to what he's done before. So, uh I'm very very curious about it. Also interesting that this is a uh Epic Games Store exclusive on PC.

Neil: Yeah.

Matthew: Um so you don't get many of those anymore. Most everything is out on Steam and uh who knows if it'll be a timed release or or something, but um yeah, that's that's an interesting uh Epic is Epic is the publisher here.

Neil: That's interesting, too, because they were also the publisher on Allen Wake 2. Uh, or not, sorry. I don't know if they were the publisher on Alan Wake 2, but I know that Alan Wake 2 was a an Epic Games Store exclusive. And I remember reading or seeing something about like that game just now started making a profit. So, I wonder if, you know, locking it to the Epic Game Store versus including it on Steam hurt them in in some ways. And I I I hope that that doesn't happen with Gen Atlas because, you know, it it is sort of a more niche audience. like it's only going to appeal to sort of like us hardcore, you know, people who've been playing like PS2 since, you know, games since the PS2 days. Um, so yeah, I do worry like limiting it.

Matthew: I I I have to figure that if I mean they don't have to agree to Epic Games Publishing like like there was a deal struck here. I I think you go into this knowing that you're going to sell fewer copies if you're if you're exclusive on I mean if you're exclusive on any store whether it's Epic or not, especially Epic, but even if you were going to restrict it as some other store, you're always just going to you're going to sell some amount less just by nature of of you know what you're doing. But um I I would think that they have to have gotten a pretty good deal uh like incentives or or whatever. I mean, who knows what it was, but the the the game like the studio this game is going to be enough. It's going to get enough eyeballs to where they could have had any other publisher, you know, like it was probably pretty soughta. Um yeah. So, I would hope I would hope that that Epic gave them a pretty good deal to to sweeten the to sweeten the pot for them.

Neil: Uh yeah, I would imagine they did. I hope they did because it's UEA and you got to give you got to back up a truck full of cash to UEA. Um first nonSony published game, I think. Um I think all the other ones were were were Sony. Um so the fact that this is uh going to be out on Xbox is is is going to draw more more attention to it already.

Matthew: That's true. He I I didn't I forgot totally forgot that all of his games were previously exclusive. Um, yeah, much less published by Sony if you know to varying degrees.

Neil: Yeah, I'm excited for it. It looks great and I Yeah, I mean I I I think you know it's hard to bet against U8. So, you know, for sure.

Matthew: Go get them, Jen Atlas.

Neil: Matthew, there was one other game that stood out to both of us uh before we move on and that was Crossfire, which was uh it's announced it's being developed by That's No Moon Studios. They've been working on this game for for a while now, but they they founded the studio a few years ago and they've been working on this ever since. It's a mismatch or not mismatch, but it's a a hodgepodge of Naughty Dog, ex Naughty Dog, XE EA, and I forget somewhere else, but there's this sort of, you know, it the idea is blending the the like the the like really good shooter gameplay with the sort of writing chops of Naughty Dog. And that's what's brought us to Crossfire. They're they're working with the Crossfire license, which is uh for those of you who don't know, a very popular online shooter game in uh China. And so there have been various attempts at trying to bring it over here to the United States and popularize it that just haven't panned out. Uh the last one being uh uh Crossfire X, which was had a a single player campaign developed by Remedy that didn't do too hot. So yeah, it seems like we've got that's no moon sort of taking another stab at it. And their their answer I guess what what what they've sort of come up with here is a hybrid like thirderson cover shooter. Um but instead of um the traditional cover, it's all about like taking cover like behind natural rock formations and like terrain and like it's adaptive cover is what they called it. Um, but then beyond that, there's also this story that it it appears that you're, you know, you're going to be playing as two sort of opposing operatives that are like part of different, you know, armies or have different allegiances to different countries. It's kind of unclear, but the sort of narrative hook is that they're going to have to work together army of two style to sort of get through whatever situation it is together. Um, so yeah, I while the game play intrigued me at first, you know, I'm I'm the jury's out on like whether or not the adaptive cover is going to be good and like I'm I'm sure given the the sort of pedigree uh that this game, you know, the development team behind this game, like I'm sure that the gameplay will be good, but I have lots of question marks about this story, man. It's It definitely seems like a well both sides have problems kind of a story and it's like do we really need one of those right now? Like do we really need one of those?

Matthew: Yeah. I don't know if that's going to be the route that they go here. I mean because when they they they mention that they're from different sides and without going into much detail and then you immediately the bulk of this trailer is spent on like them seeing weird alien. I mean I I mean I have to assume it's alien or some kind of like uh you know humanmade weapon that is made to have some kind of weird alienike properties. Um that I mean it looks it looks kind of interesting. It depends on what they do with with it narratively I think. Um I don't know. I' I've kind of I've talked about this before. I I I miss we don't get as many just like single player uh you know shooter campaigns anymore outside of the Call of Duties. You know, there used to be a lot. Um and we still I mean not to say we don't get any, but it doesn't feel like we get as many as we used to. Um where it's just

Neil: By shooter, do you mean like military shooter specifically or like just third person shooter in general?

Matthew: Primarily military. Yeah. where you're where where you've got maybe it's it's going to be a a a solid uh you know mechanic mechanically um you know a well-made shooter and maybe they have one or two quirks to what they're doing to the formula and you get an interesting story and it's basically like playing a movie you know like I'm thinking like Titanfall like Titanfall is obviously an exemplary uh example of this Titanfall 2 um and its campaign but like that sort of thing where it's like it came it shipped with a multiplayer game but it was you also had single player um that you know where they got to kind of flex some different muscles than they do in the multiplayer side of things. Um I really like those. It's like to me it's just like watching an action movie. I I like those a lot. I get I get a lot of enjoyment out of those. And this looks like one that um you know that has that has some interesting pedigree behind it. Like you mentioned a lot of a lot of notable uh alumni from other big studios. Um, the fact that this is branded Crossfire, I I I don't know enough about Crossfire as a franchise to know whether that's like supposed to signify anything this game is is like, are people who really know Crossfire, did they pick up something from this trailer that I didn't? I I I think probably not. I think if anything, it's just like an umbrella. um a way to get to get additional eyeballs onto something that's being made, but I don't know for sure. Um so yeah, I think this this one looks pretty eye-catching. It's it's obviously got a narrative focus and a big budget. So yeah, I'm interested.

Neil: Yeah, despite my my sort of like qualms or like concerns with the story, it it does give me spec ops the line vibes which you know I would argue is sort of what I would say the peak of this kind of storytelling like the third person military shooter where like yeah that that one where like I would even say the gameplay for that was like subpar where the story elevated it. So, I think if this one kind of has both and it doesn't get too hokey with the story, um I think this has got the potential to be a banger for sure. Um yeah, a part of me is also like why Crossfire and the only maybe this is just the cynic in me, but like the fact that it's just big overseas, like it's probably a way for like a new studio to secure funding. Like, hey, we're working on a quote unquote established IP, but we're going to like make it appeal more to American audiences. Um, so I think the combination of like a quote unquote established IP with a a team of veterans probably was what they wanted to, you know, go with for their first pitch. Um, I'm excited, man. Like, I'm rooting for them. Like, I want to figure out or see why this franchise is so popular. Um, you know, and and you know, like kind of like what you said, like I don't know if there's even going to be any of that original games DNA here. It would be really cool if there is. Um, but yeah, I want I want, you know, more of these kind of shooters that are, you know, military focused but actually have thoughtful stories to say. Um, yeah, I think we could all use a bit more of those. So hopefully they nail the story.

Matthew: And I think I mean if you look at the last, like you mentioned, Crossfire X, um, Remedy made the the single player portion of that game. Um, and I did not finish it. It was it was not great. Uh, not remedy. Yeah, it didn't feel it felt like again I I played very very minimal of it. Uh but it felt like remedy was working under some serious restrictions to what they were were able to do. It does not look like they had as much creative freedom as that's No Moon has for this one. Um whether that's true or not, I don't know, but it did not feel like a remedy game. Um, but I do think that lends credence to your your, you know, your point about they probably got, you know, the Crossfire IP owners were like, "Hey, we're we're looking for another another studio to make a game here and they they probably pitched that specifically um to get to get funding to make it." So, um, yeah, I hope it succeeds. I hope I hope it's good. Uh, I'll definitely definitely have an eye on it.

Neil: Well, before we move on to our break and we talk about uh Diablo and Path of Exile 2, did you have any thoughts on the the sort of summer game fest as a whole? You know, were there any surprises? You know, and and you know, who did you think had the the best show? Uh overall, in your opinion,

Matthew: I thought it was I I thought it was pretty good. I mean, when you when you when you you kind of know or you know what to expect when you're getting like these E3 style things, you it's it's where you're going to get the biggest announcements, right? Like like the the biggest um the biggest for the mass market, right? Like it's it's like a summer summer movie type thing. You're going to get the blockbusters here. This is not going to be for your your niche games. Obviously, there's going to be some in the smaller showcases and stuff, but the the biggest games are going to be on display here, and that's going to be where the conversation is dominated by. Um, so in that regard, I think it it's s it was successful in that regard. I I think, you know, getting um you know, Resident Evil Veronica announced, we didn't talk about that, but that was like the most like, yep, that makes total sense to announce that here uh type type announcement. Um it it seems cool, but there's nothing surprising about them announcing that here.

Neil: Um and it's there were a lot of leaks ahead of this show as well, like even on the Nintendo side, right? like the, you know, we didn't talk much about Nintendo, but that Ocarina of Time remake, like there was definitely a sort of divisive uh reaction to that because it was essentially a teaser and I think the reason because it was so divisive was because we all essentially knew that it was getting announced. So, uh yeah, a couple of those moments that sort of took the wind out of the sales. But yeah, I I agree with you in that like this I mean I've probably been feeling that Summer Game Fest has replaced E3 for a couple of years now. Um, but I think this year like it really did feel like, okay, yeah, like we're in the middle of it. It's summer game season. Like everyone's here bringing their big guns. Like it definitely felt like um the big three, Sony, Microsoft, and uh Nintendo where like kind of like the olden days of E3 where they're like trying to bring their best and put their best foot forward. Um, I I I know that that's the case for every year, but like this this year definitely felt like uh, you know, like there was a lot of different games across a lot of different genres for different people. I think the shows themselves were kind of weird, you know, like some of the individual shows got a little too pigeonhold with who they were trying to talk to, but yeah, overall I think I enjoyed it. Uh, did you have a favorite show out of the ones that uh that you watched or?

Matthew: Uh, I mean, I think if we're going to compare like the console holders like Nintendo, Sony, and Xbox, um, I I would still give it to Sony. Um, they came in first. I think they theirs was still probably front to back my favorite. Not Not that they again, we're not talking about exclusives or anything here. I think I but just like the quality of the games that that they got for their showcase. I think um probably overall the best. There weren't many weak links there. Um followed by followed by Xbox for me personally. I I was not huge on the Nintendo um the Nintendo showcase simply for the reason that you that you mentioned like they teased Ocarina. um they showed off a bunch of stuff that we already kind of knew about um and and didn't have that much like that much new new stuff to to kind of announce or anything.

Neil: Yeah. Um yeah, I think I liked the the lineup of games at Nintendo's the most overall, but I think it did have the most like this could have been an email energy.

Matthew: Exactly. Because Yeah.

Neil: Splatoon Raiders and like all of these games look great, but we knew, you know, they were known quantities like Splatoon Raiders is out next month. So, and same thing with like Rhythm Heaven that got kind of like an extended look and like that's out in a month. So, I get why they're here and why they needed to be included. But, yeah, someone who comes to these events for yeah, the big guns, the new stuff, like only getting Zelda was kind of a disappointment there for Nintendo. Um, there was one game that I'm gonna shout out, Final Fantasy Resonance, which is the the first HD 2D Final Fantasy. Like, it looks like they're doing the Octopath HD2D style, but like telling a more traditionally Final Fantasy story, and I'm all in. Um, it's also just a a uh they're just porting over the the Brave Xius game that closed down, but you know, modifying it to, you know, make it more single player. Allah Octopath Traveler Zero. So, I was very excited about that. But the Nintendo Direct was definitely another one of those where it fit into like if you're not a fan of JRPGs, like there's not much for you here.

Matthew: Yeah, I do think Final Fantasy um looks looks good. I I I've always heard good things about like the sort of campaign and Brave Exus um but I was never going to play Brave Exodus as it was. So, uh, yeah, and I especially, you know, um, having dabbled with the demo for, uh, Tales or Adventures of Elliot and and that being in the 2D style and that playing so well, I um, yeah, I I think there's there's definitely potential there.

Neil: All right, we've talked about Summer Game Fest enough. We're going to go to break, but when we come back, we're going to talk about Diablo IV Lord of Hatred and Path of Exile 2: Return of the Ancients. Stay right there.

And we're back. Matthew, there is not a single genre of game I think that I have spent more I shouldn't say spent wasted more of my time on than action RPGs. I love a good dungeon crawler, creating my character, you know, picking a build, and just spending hundreds of hours going through procedurally generated dungeons, killing monsters, and getting loot. and just rinse, wash, and repeat. Like, that's one of my favorite things to do in video games. And so, this year, I think, has is just I think the perfect time to be a fan of those games because we've got not one but two giant expansions to arguably, I would say, the two most popular uh games in the genre today. So, I've jumped into Path of Exile 2: Return of the Ancients, which is the newest uh expansion for Path of Exile 2, which has been out in early access for some time now. Um, just a little bit of background, uh, I have been a long time, you know, despite my my uh my love of action RPGs, I've only really ever played Diablo and like a couple of other smaller ones. So, this is my first time. I didn't play Path of Exile 1. I didn't play Path of Exile 2 during the early access. I'm jumping or not during like the initial early access launch. Um, but I am jumping into it here for the expansion and it seems like my timing could not be any better because they have totally overhauled the game in a lot of ways. Um, making it more approachable for uh, you know, like more casual players like myself. Um, you know, one of the big uh announcements that they sort of teased with the new uh league is that they're they're bringing a a build um viewer to the the sort of like in-game client. Um, you know, previously the Path of Exile community, you know, well known for I guess one thing that Path of Exile games are really known for is like their big expansive skill trees. There's lots of different nodes that you can select and unlock as you level up. So, you know, the community has these really robust and uh in-depth build guides, and one of the big things is that they're baking it into the game now, which is really cool. So, all that to say that, you know, they're they're they've been updating and overhauling the game to make it like sort of more casual friendly. Um, you know, I think in the comparison between Path of Exile 2 and Diablo IV, Path of Exile 2 leans more hardcore, you know, like you know what you're doing, you're minmaxing your build. Um, so yeah, I mean I've been playing it. I'm I'm I'm about 20 hours in. Um, you know, Matthew and I neither of us have completed the or we we've we're on the verge of completing the campaigns for both Path of Exile 2 and Matthew has uh is close to finishing it for Diablo IV Lord of Hatred. Um, so we haven't really experienced the endgame in either of those, but we wanted to sort of talk about our experiences, our combined experiences, uh, and sort of compare and and contrast the two since they're both uh, coming out this year. And so, yeah, as a new Path of Exile 2 player coming over from the more casual Diablo series, um, I think this is like I get why this is is as popular as it is. Um, you know, I think the the things that immediately stand out to me as a new Path of Exile player is just the um the just sort of moodiness and the the like just the the really high fidelity. Um, you know, in terms of like the art direction and the just the overall visual presentation. Um, it it it really reminds me of like old classic Magic the Gathering. just that really dark um you know almost grotesque at times but not too grotesque like I think Diablo goes into the the realm of being too grotesque where this one kind of keeps it more grounded in reality and less or not less reality but more grounded and you know like more I don't know I don't know what the word is. I guess not as gratuitous yeah yeah less demonic less yeah gratuitous um and then of course like the the the sort of just building my the experience of building my character is the other thing that stands out and there's a lot of things that go into that. I already mentioned the skill tree which is huge and expansive and almost overwhelming. Um, but then there's also, you know, just the it's a it's, you know, instead of like you you're picking between I think it's six six to eight I forget how many characters that they have, but you're you're picking a pre like pre-made character that's essentially a character class, but then it's essentially a I don't want to call it classless, but it's it's totally free in how you build out that character. you can add and unlock whatever skills. Like it almost borrows from the Souls games in a way where you're upgrading your strength, your intelligence, or your dexterity. And based on how high those values are, that can dictate the kinds of skills that you unlock, the kinds of weapons and armor that you can wear. And so it's it's flexible in a way that like I'm playing a sorceress, but if I wanted to spec and be like more of a battle mage who wields a mace and do other things, I can do that. Um, so I think that's really fun and I've been having a lot of fun experimenting with the different ways that I can kind of build out my character. Um, but yeah, like I'm I'm really enjoying it. Um, and yeah, so I mean as someone who like played I've played Diablo IV, but um, you know, really the the thing that sort of like turned me off to it long term is the some of the more just the way that they handle like the live service uh, elements and like the battle pass and I think a lot of the the the more like, you know, like the daily quest and the weekly quest like all of that stuff was really hard for me to get into where I think and granted I haven't gotten into the endgame in Path of Exile. style specifically yet, but um you know, it seems like everything here is more like cosmetic and like you it's more it's less finding points on a map and just like I don't know. I don't know how to explain it.

Matthew: Yeah. I mean, I think I think it's these these two games have it's really interesting the similar like where they converge and where they diverge. Um and the type of person who prefers one or the other. I so I I think yeah it's interesting that to me to hear that your your uh what kind of rubbed you the wrong way about Diablo was was the was the presence of a battle pass and stuff when like the thing that I don't really like about Path of Exile is that you know and again I I I so my experience with Path of Exile 2 specifically was um about over a year ago at this point towards the beginning of the early access like the first six months um and I and I didn't play you know more than like five hours or something. So, very very minimal impressions as far as as far as things go. But, um like they they had you could buy things that were like stash space, I think, and like you you had to buy uh I can't remember there there was some other um uh monetization where it was like you you were basically paying for an in-game feature, which was it kind of it didn't feel right to me. Like it it's sort of similar to how like Funcom did back with like um Conan Exiles where there there are certain like chests you buy that like allow you to sort easily or something and while like normally you have to sort manually. It's like I don't understand why you're gating you're gating me from mechanics that you've clearly built into a game that I've um that I've purchased already. And that is not to say that there that there are not monetization issues with Diablo IV as well. There there there are. Um but I for for me personally, I found the ones in Path of Exile to rubbed me the wrong way a little bit more than the ones in Diablo did.

Neil: I haven't Yeah, I haven't brushed up against it too much. And really all I've noticed is the cosmetics. So I'm not speaking exactly from a place of like fully understanding what they're charging for and what they're not charging for. I will say though that hearing, you know, like that some of the like inventory stuff is locked behind a, you know, like microtransactions rubs me the wrong way too because one of my biggest complaints is the inventory. Um, it I think the biggest gripe is that there's just so many items. There's so many different orbs that you're picking up and this orb does that and this orb, you know, upgrades this kind of item and this orb, you know, like this. you have all these different, of course, gems and things that you can slot into your items. And so that combined with the frankly strange decision to put um have quest items be like take up space in your inventory was just I think just a bad decision because I I do find myself going back to town to just sell vendor trash more and it's gotten to a point where like I've just stopped picking up stuff as much which I think in my mind kind of defeats the purpose. But yeah, like I think the fact that they're if if they are charging for, you know, extra inventory space while making it sort of like cumbersome to interact with that system. I definitely agree that that's not good and I would rather deal with Yeah. like a battle pass and all that stuff.

Matthew: Yeah, I just double check. And there they are specialty tabs, so it's like it basically allows allows certain uh items to currencies to stack higher and take up fewer space. Um, got it. So yeah, I mean it's it's it's not egregious, right? And it's permanent. It's not like you're having to buy them per character or anything.

Neil: Yeah.

Matthew: But it's just like a little bit of like sour taste as a way this is the way I would put it like where it's like I don't don't really like that. uh it's not going to break your experience, but I just

Neil: Yeah, I I thought that that was it.

Matthew: It's, you know, they and Diablo like on the Diablo side of things, I'll say like a lot of people uh had found that if they didn't purchase like this latest expansion due to the way that they reworked the skill tree, um if you were playing a class that was in the base game, there were certain skills that they couldn't unlock on the skill tree. Um basically basically restricting them from using a character class that they'd already purchased. Now, I I don't know, again, I I haven't dug into this deeply. I didn't see it myself cuz I bought the expansion. I don't know how uh widespread it was or if this was fixed or if it was a bug at first or whatever, but I I you know, people you will inevitably hear people complaining about things online and this was like the big one that I saw around the launch, Lord of Hat. And um yeah, I mean provided that that is still the way it works, that's pretty bad. Um so yeah, again, it's it's it's it's these sort of uh ways that they just try to kind of milk a little bit more money out of these games that you've already paid for, which it never is going to never is going to feel good.

Neil: Yeah, it seems that seems kind of shady, man. Like that seems almost like planned obsolescence where it's like yeah like in order to continue enjoying this character class that you've you know been playing like you have to buy the new game to get access to these new skills. Like yeah it's weird but yeah I mean like that's I think that's just the problem with these games especially in the live service era is that you have to continually monetize otherwise you know people are just going to spend hundreds of hours in your game and like that's it you know like I spent 15 bucks on Path of Exile 2 and like realistically that's all they're getting out of me. Um, so you know, like yeah, like I understand the need to find ways to get creative with this so you can fund more expansions, more updates and things like that. So, um, yeah, I'm enjoying my time, uh, you know, with with Path of Exile. I think, you know, like there are definitely like there's more friction um, than you know, Diablo. you know, Diablo IV think is a very, you know, more I think it's be, you know, it it has more of appeal to a more of a casual player where I think Path of Exile is going to get in your way a lot more. Another issue I had or have with it is just how just the size of some of these maps and a lot of the times you end up looking for like tiny little passageways or paths that you haven't revealed yet and you end up having to like navigate this huge giant space uh and wander aimlessly around. So, like, you know, I I I I definitely have complaints um you know, about Path of Exile, and I could definitely see myself like I I I'm not ready to declare like, oh yeah, like I'm a Path of Exile guy now. Um and I think a lot of that, you know, comes down to the fact that I just haven't played any of the the more recent Diablo expansions. So, Matthew, take me through your time with Lord of Hat. Um you're playing as a paladin, which is one of the new classes. So, take me through your experience with the campaign and your experience playing as a new paladin. Maybe sell me on Diablo IV over Path of Exile.

Matthew: Yeah, so I actually I I played a ton of Diablo IV at launch back in 2023. Um, it was one of my favorite games of that year. Uh, and I I played it through a good chunk of 2024 and I burnt out on it right before the first expansion launched, um, which was Vessel of Hatred. And so I I didn't end up even finishing the campaign of that expansion um before like I just stopped playing it around that I hit a wall um where I was tired of it at the time. So um Lord of Hatred there after a two-year break is is back and um that gave me an opportunity to go back and and play through Vessel of Hatred as well. Um I think that the Lord of Hatred expansion is much better than Vessel of Hatred. Vessel of Hatred the campaign and it had a feel it had the feel of a a DLC or like or even just like some of the seasonal content that they roll out like every two or three months where you get like a small story line. Um and this was only like it only Vessel of Hatred only felt marginally bigger than that and it just it just happened to feature the characters in the main plot and continue that story line. um it didn't feel like big and monumental in the way that I think a di a Diablo campaign should um especially like you know compared to the the base Diablo IV campaign which I I thought was great. Um it did add a new zone um which was good. I did I I because because I kind of blew through that expansion. I did I did not end up spending a ton of time in that zone after I finished it. I moved on to the Lord of Hatred Zone. Um, which is the Sco Isles. Um, they're like it's got a very like Greek mythology kind of feel to it. Um, it definitely it's definitely Greece styled. Um, and yeah, Lord of Hatred I I think um it definitely has like final book of the trilogy vibes to it. like they're they're bringing in um you know some of the main cast of characters that sat out from the Vest of Hatred expansion, even some characters that set out of Diablo IV entirely, but you would know from like say Diablo II or Diablo II.

Neil: Nice.

Matthew: Um there there's there's a there's a couple of callbacks there that is that have been kind of like, you know, cool for the longtime fan of me to see. Um, yeah, it just has a it has a very a very uh grand sense of scale to it. And um, yeah, I I really like the Paladin class. So, the Paladin class, they actually launched a little before the expansion. It was it was tied to the expansion. You got early access to it if you pre-ordered. Um, the Paladin class, I mean, if you played a Paladin class in like Diablo II or something, it's it's going to feel pretty familiar. you have a mix of like um of melee abilities, but also kind of like mid-range abilities. And um I would say what's what's most unique about it is their auras. So you can have like an aura build where you're you're just popping auras and um spamming like one attack ability or whatever. It's actually possible that you can you can spec your character and to be like an entirely support character if you wanted like to have no offensive abilities where you're just buffing people you're partied with. Um I haven't tried that out.

Neil: Give me a holy paladin. Let's go.

Matthew: Exactly. Yeah. So, um I but yeah, I've gone for like a a mix of uh auras and like um like my a shield throw ability where you like throw the shield out and it uh kind of like radiates this like pulse of energy and gives you like some small a small AOE area where um it'll it'll hurt enemies. Uh and that's been that's been really fun to play. I also um played around a little bit with a like a spinning shield build where it's just like you get these kind of like rotating shields that they that go around you and gradually get further and further away and they're like hitting en any enemies that you that they pass through as they um as they continue to rotate and spin. So, uh yeah, it's been a lot of fun for me to play. I think it's it's one of my favorite character classes. I didn't they I've played most of the character classes other than the other new one, the Warlock. I have not tried that yet. Um, and I didn't play the Spirit Born, which was added with Vessel of Hatred, but I've played all the rest. And I would say Paladin is probably top top three, I would say. It would be tough for it to for me to rank it. Um, those top three between Rogue, Necromancer, and Paladin. Um, because I level three of those. But it's it's a lot of fun. I I've had a great time with it. Um, the builds seem pretty the build opportunities seem really diverse and um, yeah, it's it's been fun getting to explore a new class while also getting to explore new content.

Neil: Yeah. No, I love that. And I mean, I think the way that you sold the story really like and not to not to say that Path of Exiles storytelling is bad by any means. It's just different than what Blizzards is. And I think, you know, I think I'm more like I think I'm more prone to liking Blizzard storytelling. It's just grander. It's bigger. It's more epic. Where I think where Path of Exile I think what Path of Exile does really really well is it tells these really cool unique stories around the different areas that you're traversing. So you're learning about the different areas and you're you know like exploring you know tombs and caverns and dungeons and like you know figuring out what happened to the world and of course you're doing battle with these you know gods and people who have you know like these all powerful entities. So it's it's a less like grand approach. Um, but it is, you know, not to not to compare it again to to Souls games, but it is similar to, you know, like Souls game is a little bit more environmental storytelling happening or more just, you know, more just like happening in the areas that you're in more so than this big overarching plot. How have you found the variety and those sort of minor stories?

Matthew: Cuz I would say one complaint I have about Diablo IV in general is that there's there's quite a bit of side quests there and they do try to fill in the like the regional storytelling that you're talking about, but my wife and I have a running joke in that every time you pick up a a side quest in this game, either the person who gave you the quest is going to betray you or they're going to die and you're going to have to fight whatever killed them. Like that that it it

Neil: that was Yeah. Yeah. That was one thing that stood out to me. Whereas like it's, you know, I I compared it to, you know, like sort of like the dark Magic the Gathering, but it's not as grotesque or it doesn't go as like it it it, you know, there's definitely more variety there. There's definitely like that was one thing that stood out was like, oh wait, everyone in this world isn't miserable all of the time. That's amazing. You know, like there there are people, you know, like there's, you know, there's a treasure hunter that you're helping out. Like you're helping him find treasure in these like, you know, sort of like, you know, Aztec inspired ruins and things like that. And so like there is more of like an adventurous type of feel to what you're doing. There is obviously an overarching plot. You know there are quest lines where you know like this person was banished because they betrayed you know the entire group of people and you have to like put them out of their misery essentially. Um so you know there are definitely story lines and storytelling that that you know veers into the more dark uh territory but I think overall it is a little bit more palatable.

Matthew: Yeah, that that definitely sounds good. I I I do want to go back to Path of Exile. I will say I think, you know, some of what you talked about about the character development aspect of it is sort of what uh pushes me away or or makes me a little bit more hesitant to get into it is because so the way I play Diablo is I like I I I will I will experiment with builds, but I like being able to just like look up online like, okay, what's a good build for doing this with this class? and it's like a five minute a five minute search for me to just like quickly respspec or whatever and play away play like play in a certain way. Um, and that that it's there's like a degree there's like a a fine line between having the right amount of customization to play the way you want and drowning in options where I feel like I'm going to be running with an inefficient build if I don't if I'm not following a guide. You know what I mean? Um, and I feel like Diablo IV, especially now that they've tweaked the skill tree a little bit in in Lord of Hatred, the way it works, I feel like it's it's it's hard to make a bad build. Like you you can make a suboptimal build obviously, but you're going to be you're going to be having fun regardless of how you of how you do it. and Path of Exile with the way that they handle their their skill progression and and attributes and everything has always seemed like I better not mess this up or like I'm going to be so ineffective I might as well not even play this. Is that is that is that true? Is there any is there any have you found that to be the case or have you been following a guide and when you're when you're making your build?

Neil: Uh so I'm not following a guide when I'm making my build. I'm kind of winging it as I go. But I did have this sort of, you know, I mentioned earlier in our conversation that um, you know, I I experimented with making more of like a battle mage and it went terribly. Um, so yeah, I definitely I think it I think you know I'm kind of reserving it for or my thoughts on that like for like the endgame cuz it looks like and I'm not 100% sure but it looks like I'll be able to unlock different starting points on the skill tree which I think is my issue where you know like you basically you know you have the the the tree is essentially just a big giant circle and the way that my skill tree at least has me like is sort of guiding me is building it up towards the north where like if I wanted to go more melee like tank focus, I had to go toward like the the the west side of mine. Um, and like just to get to where over there, I felt like I wasted a lot of space and nodes. And so I think a lot of that is definitely a factor in Path of Exile 2, but I'm hoping that there's a little bit more um you know in the end game to give you options to like sort of like choose what area you want to focus on rather than cuz yeah right now I do feel like I am because I picked the sorceress it is in my best interest to play my sorceress like you know like a traditional magic caster. So I I while there is while I do see the the the sort of like the framework and like the amount of flexibility that there is, it's not as much as I was anticipating, which or at least given my my sort of first reaction. Um so yeah, it's I I I don't want to say, you know, I don't want to compare it to Diablo because I think Diablo is a little bit more, you know, beginner friendly and is a little bit more linear. Um, but you know, I I I do think that there's there's times where it just doesn't, you know, it doesn't give me as much or it's it's not as as as you know, I I feel like I'm, you know, I can't always make as an effective build uh using it as, you know, compared to Diablo, which I think is is it's pretty easy to make an effective build.

Matthew: Yeah. And and and Diablo does split it out. I mean, because I think in Path of Exile, you kind of always can see everything that's even available to your in-game characters, if I recall correctly.

Neil: Yeah.

Matthew: Whereas Diablo, once you hit the level cap, you unlock unlock the paragon boards, which is where you get something more similar to the Path of Exile style where you can put sort of like slot these big different squares together and you you you work through them and uh you know, when you get to another edge, you get to drop another board there. And so you get you get customization that way. And it and it when you get to that like you you you can you can make a bad build with that. It it does give you the option there and and as you start like ramping up the difficulties in the end game. I did a bit of that back, you know, at at launch um before some some of the bigger changes. But um yeah, in in that situation, you you you're there's certainly suboptimal ways that you can that you can take it there that you definitely feel. But for the for the for the core core character build, like in terms of choosing your skill abilities and that sort of thing, that's where it's kind of hard to mess up. So, I feel like maybe maybe Diablo kind of parses that out a bit better where whereas like Path of Exile is going to appeal to the people who like want to theory craft, want to like build their own their own class and really get into the weeds and tinker with the stuff like right from the jump. Um, and and which and that's that's that's a large part of the the ARPG audience. Like that shouldn't be discounted. You know, there's a reason why a lot of people prefer Path of Exile to Diablo IV. And I think that's that's probably one of the big reasons.

Neil: Yeah, it can be. It it definitely feels overwhelming and it's definitely I I I'm torn on whether or not I would prefer the Diablo approach versus the the Path of Exile approach because there is something I do enjoy about like okay like you know it really reminds me a lot of the sphere grid in Final Fantasy 10 of like just being able to see like okay where do all these paths lead and what's the best way to get there but okay what if I want to you know swing around and get this on the way like there's it's yeah it's easy to get lost in um but I do appreciate that like the the way Diablo sections it out to where like okay now it's time to lock in after you've reached the you know the max level whereas I feel like I'm constantly having to lock in for Path of Exile 2. So but yeah like you said man like I think this Path of Exile 2 speaks to a more hardcore audience. Um, I am glad that they are taking steps to sort of make it more approachable and you know, as somebody who is kind of a more casual gamer, like I think it is kind of like already in that like it I I do think that it is approachable. Um, despite some of the the sort of quibbles that I have with it. Um, you know, I was also looking up in Reddit on Reddit while you were talking about Diablo and, you know, looking on the the the build guides thing. It still it seems like that's still kind of like early. People are still figuring it out. Um, so yeah, like I think even even like, you know, with the the sort of like um the steps that they're taking to make it more approachable, like it's definitely still a work in progress and it definitely still is one of those games that appeals more to like the hardcore crowd.

Matthew: Yeah.

Neil: But I'm glad I'm playing it. I'm enjoying it. Um, you know, I I definitely like like I said, I'm just I'm still torn on whether or not I'm, you know, done with Diablo forever. Spoilers, I'm not.

Matthew: Yeah. I I mean I would definitely recommend you go back and um you know maybe on discount or something like during a sale uh pick up the latest expansion which I think includes the middle expansion now. Um and even if you just play through it for the story I think it's totally totally worth it. Uh you know we talked about some of the more like you know single player firsterson shooter campaigns that you that you can get. Like it's it's I even if you didn't you weren't interested in in any of the extra trappings around it, any of the endgame activity or build crafting or anything, you could just straight up play through the Diablo IV campaign and it's two expansions and it's a great story. It's a good time. Um, you know, takes you to a lot of cool looking places and and just you can kind of appreciate the storytelling and the and the spectacle that they're putting on. Um, so I mean I I think you know, not just to you, but to anybody that that is like an ARPG um novice, like I would I think Diablo IV is is a perfect balance between, you know, getting the getting the the new players in, but also having just enough depth at the end of the experience to to appeal to people who have been around with it for a long time.

Neil: Yeah. Yeah. TBD uh on whether or not uh Path of Exile 2 will like consume like be all of the ARPG I play. Uh but I do I do really want to play uh Lord of Hatred because I did not play uh Vessel of Hatred. So yeah, I definitely want to check out all that content because it's

Matthew: Yeah, I mean like there's still few developers that are doing story like Blizzard is. And you know, even in this sort of like latest iteration of Blizzard, you know, um you know, they're still putting out banger stories with with uh you know, great like amazing locations and and you know, great gameplay to back it up, too. So, yeah, by no means am I done with Diablo. Last last thing I'll say about Diablo, I will say that some of the uh set armor and stuff that they're putting out for uh like both for like cosmetics for purchase and just like in-game cosmetic or like in-game sets that are that are in Diablo IV. Some of the coolest set designs I would say since like early World of Warcraft days. Like they they they look fantastic for for the for the classes that are in Diablo IV. So if you're into that sort of thing, that's another another plus for it.

Neil: You're selling me, Matthew. Um, but we will have to wait and see if I jump on the Diablo IV bandwagon again. Maybe we'll talk about it on another episode because this episode is over. We appreciate you guys coming and hanging out with us talking about video games. Uh, we want to remind you guys that you can listen to past episodes and find us on your social network of choice at timekillerspod.com. Once you do that and follow us, DM us your questions, your comments, your concerns, and your hot takes, anything having to do with the world of video games or movies, anything we kill time with. And don't forget, whatever podcast service that you're listening to us on, subscribe to us, leave us a review, and let us know how much you love us. Uh, with that, Matthew, anything you want to say to the fine folks before we sign off?

Matthew: See you in Sanctuary.

Neil: I will see you in Sanctu. Well, Matthew will see you in Sanctuary. and I will see you on the streets in Wraeclast. Y'all have a good one.